Zen koan what was your face

In this case, it's asking you to ponder our assumptions about what it means to be born and cut through the illusion of permanence so you actually comprehend the ongoing process. As beautifully stated above, all koans are one koan and each is asking "What are you? This one deals with birth. Another famous one about clinging to a vine on a cliff and eating a strawberry is about death. Other koans present you with a slice of life and ask you to respond. SpinyNorman said: But Cinorjer said that "It is a misconception that koans have no correct answers.

Or is it just about the process, and if so what's the purpose of the process? For koans, there is always a correct answer. When you go sit down with the zen master and he asks you to give him the correct answer, you can't just say whatever.

You have to give him the correct answer or he will tell you to go away and come back with the correct answer and you won't progress to the next koan until you give him the correct answer. But I'm reminded of what my teacher once said.

He said "I could tell you all the answers to all the koans, but that still won't help you answer them". Which means it's not just about the answer but also about understanding the question, understanding the answer and understanding why the correct answer is the correct answer.

Trying to eff the ineffable is enough to blow ones logical mind, which is precisely what koans are meant to do Now you can't explain why something is ineffable without talking about it That's a plain contradiction Alan Watts once said "I'm in the business of effing the ineffable" and for the most part I think he did quite a good job I don't even know how I look like at this moment!

When I look into a mirror, I only see what others see, a reflection, a mask. There many more things inside that I can never ever see. So who is the real me? It's a common complaint. It probably drove half the people in my meditation classes to come in and sit on a cushion, to judge by what they said when I'd begin by asking them why they came and what they hope to get out of it.

People need to "find themselves" so they can "do my own thing" and such. Your coworkers look at you and see another worker toiling away at a function. Your boss looks at you and sees another worker. Your spouse looks at you and sees a husband or wife. Your parents look at you and see the child.

Your children look at you and see a parent. And you play the roles as called upon. It's called the "don't know mind". One of the purposes at least to me, is to get the mind to see through seeming paradox. Stuff like emptiness and form being one in the same, the nature of the two truths, existing, non-existing, neither nor both It can all seem counter-intuitive and contradictory to many of us.

The koan imho is not a temporarily disturbance in my otherwise orderly world. Koan practice dissolves the fixed ideas in our head - all of them; it opens up our hearts and our hara our centre of energy and intuition. It may do many other things; but the orderly world we thought we knew will not be restored.

Many of us, myself included have a tendency to a logical, mind orientated dharma. It makes sense. As we practice focus and attentive awareness the ability to hold counter intuitive or apparently impossible paradoxical understanding becomes apparent. In essence we have to understand intuitively or with the heart. This is a new form of processing. It is a bit like dissonance in jazz or in controversial art forms.

So would you say the purpose of koan practice is ultimately to develop insight into anatta and sunyata? SpinyNorman said: So would you say the purpose of koan practice is ultimately to develop insight into anatta and sunyata? But the practice includes heavy meditation. Remember koan work is always paired with meditation. Cinorjer said: But the practice includes heavy meditation.

I think I'd find it hard to concentrate on the meditation if I was puzzling over a koan. SpinyNorman said: I think I'd find it hard to concentrate on the meditation if I was puzzling over a koan. It's no fun, believe me. You are told to fix your mind on the koan, but it's exhausting after a while. And frustrating. And the biggest roadblock is being afraid to tackle one because it seems impossible and we're afraid of failing.

Part of it is the fault of the Zen schools themselves, who want to hype up the difficulty and unique nature of the koans and how special the advanced Zen Master is for mastering this strange thing.

So our stress levels get in the way. Have you ever taken a test where you completely blew the answer, but soon as you turned in the paper and left the room, the answer came flooding into your mind?

You knew the answer all along. It's a similar process. First you approach the koan as an enemy to be conquered through will power. Then eventually the koan becomes as familiar as an old friend. Finally you embrace the koan as a great gift given to you by the Dharma. And then you and the koan become one. Your great doubt becomes confidence. And telling you this doesn't change the fact that you have to follow the process. You know the answer.

When you can tell the Master "This is my answer" instead of asking "Is this the correct answer? Damn, I knew if I joined this group I'd get some answers. The answer to this Koan really does stare you right in the face, and you can't help but miss it. What you have to realise is this, and it's so simple as to be stupid: If you are trying to see one face of an infinitely faceted, faceted thing you appear to be missing the points and the edges.

So what gives those points and edges points and edges? Well that's what you are looking at but as it is so familiar it doesn't stand out, and you just see what's there, it's what's there - NO! Lets take another look shall we as I'm not sure I saw it right? What am I trying to look at again? Oh Yeah that's right - I'm Me trying to see Me. But how do I see the me seeing me who is doing the seeing. Hmm this is trickier than I thought. I'm going to reductio ad infinitum and eating my tail again.

What was that Messrs Dirty knife, fork and Mrs. Howdy, Stranger! Sign In Register. Discussion What was my face before I was born. What to search discussions comments. Welcome home! Please contact lincoln newbuddhist.

New registrations must be manually approved which may take up to 48 hours. Can't log in? Try clearing your browser's cookies. Cinorjer Veteran. July edited July in Meditation. What was my face before I was born? So what was your face, before you were born?

July edited July Victorious Grim Veteran. July David A human residing in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada. Reflecting on the koan, we can begin to see how we've become addicted to our own reality - our beliefs, assumptions, theories, perceptions and perspectives. Deep reflection can also support us to flow in a space of no-mind, an "original space" of mental quietude, unencumbered by our thoughts and thought patterns.

The point of this is that when we become more natural and internally quiet, we can better interact with others - not as a robotic, human collection of beliefs, opinions, or assumptions, etc.

We gave and give birth to our self every time we draw a conclusion about "who I am. But we all have an "original face" — who we were before we identified with anything. And we can return to our original face — a place of inner peace and well-being - if we learn to let go of our "false face.

Some questions for self-reflection When was the last time you experienced your "original face"? Aside from physical elements, what emotional or attitudinal elements obscure your original face?

Do you tend to take people, events or circumstances "personally"? If so, why? As a child, did you behave in ways you didn't want to get your parents' attention, love, or approval? Do you still do the same now? How about in your everyday world? In addition to your closet of clothes, do you have a closet of faces and personas you put on for different circumstances and people? Why is that? Would folks describe you as authentic? How do you know? Would you ask them?

If not, why not? Products By Author. Also By Author. See All. Sounds True — July 3, The Biophilia Effect — Clemens G. Arvay This is a book that celebrates our interconnection with nature and shows how to deeply engage the natural world wherever you live to dramatically improve your health. Arvay presents fascinating research, practical tools and activities, inspiring stories, and more in this accessible guide to the remarkable benefits of being in nature.

Arvay Human beings are inseparable from the natural world, coevolving with all of life. Happier Now — Nataly Kogan What if you could be happier, right now, without radically changing your life?

Sounds True — November 29, Sounds True is on Spotify! Sounds True — November 20, You vowed to speak up at work, and then sat silent in the meeting yet again.

You Might Also Enjoy. Mindfulness Relationships. Lisa Broderick — October 26, Mindfulness Shamanism. Mara Bishop — September 28, Does it mean being yourself?

Is it radiance, openness, or casting your energy outward toward others? Is it being the center of attention? I have two resources to help, one is available now, and one will be available soon. More information about Mara is at www. May 29, at pm. Sounds True is a multimedia publishing company founded in by Tami Simon, with the mission of disseminating spiritual wisdom. The company is based in Louisville, Colorado, near Boulder, Colorado. Listen to Sounds True playlists on.

Arthur Avenue Louisville, CO Connect With Us. Facebook Twitter Youtube Instagram Pinterest. Enjoy two FREE gifts when you join our global online community. Enter your email below. All rights reserved. Close dialog.

Session expired Please log in again. Share via. Copy Link.